Jeremy (00:00)
My favorite part of being in a small space. There are interrogation tactics that the CIA uses that are quite similar to our current AC-less situation in our office. At the staff meeting, HR said, AI would only take repetitive tasks. The intern leaned over and whispered, so my entire resume?

Jim (00:02)
⁓ Does it make me feel faster?

boarding later after lunch.

Jeremy (00:26)
Okay. That's it. It's short. You asked. In the last episode, you asked for short.

Jim (00:29)
like that

it's short, it's also like, it's witty. It's like, that's kind of like...

Jeremy (00:35)
I did not

enjoy this one at all. ⁓ It's just not funny. No, that's not fair. That's not true. AI is ⁓ rarely funny, but sometimes.

Jim (00:41)
It never is. ⁓

Well,

fair.

⁓ so much like the joke, the hype of these jokes versus the reality does not really live up. It could be your delivery. ⁓

Jeremy (01:04)
I'm willing

to take the fall under most circumstances, but I'm going to say that joke was horrible. ⁓

Jim (01:09)
Yeah, there's

a lot of hype out there in the world right now ⁓ with AI. You every time a new release comes out, every time a new update, there's just, the question becomes, how do business owners...

harsh through the hype versus the reality. Not just with these particular companies and what they're saying, but even from other leaders or people who are hyping this up as the coming revolution of the world. I had a conversation with somebody the other night and they were saying, it's just a fad. I'm like, ⁓ I really wish that you were right. No, I don't really wish that they right because I actually like AI tools. However, I had another conversation with someone who is not tech savvy at all and they said they had somebody in their office and there's a big tech,

like a big ⁓ business leader, very well off, done very well. And he said, yeah, I don't know anything about AI. He said, but I knew I had somebody sitting across from me who was absolutely scared out of their mind about what comes next. And they said, I just don't know anything about it. So I just don't know enough about it. So they said, I see some headlines and I know something's happening, but I don't understand it enough. And I said, that's, first step is really, is kind of getting in. So a couple things ⁓ we're gonna get into a little bit as we get into here.

We're not going to touch too deep into it, but banks, you we don't do a lot of things with banks and things like that. We don't do a lot of work and collaborations with them, financial institutions, because of the complexity of everything they're dealing with.

Jeremy (02:34)
I don't know

a lot of small business banks out there.

Jim (02:37)
There's little

credit unions. There are little credit unions that I at least have conversations with, but we don't really do that space. It's too complicated and very, very particular. But ⁓ an American banker, which we read regularly because we like to keep up on these things. We do like to keep up on everything, I guess, in every industry. But the idea of these ⁓ Google AP2. So, Tucker, do you know a little bit about this or no?

Jeremy (03:02)
only cursorily, but I think the major takeaway from this article, right, so what banks need to know is frankly what everyone needs to know, which is when we are at the dawn of agentic AI, and what that means is you will have AI different than chat GBT sort of top line product, which most people at this point have at least tried. ⁓ This is fairly autonomous, creative resources that can think.

thinking quotes, but you know, that can navigate complex challenges.

Jim (03:34)
their own on

their own independently and without a lot of pre or very little to no pre-program

Jeremy (03:39)
And if you have any skeptical bone in your body, like I have at least most, right? I've collected them all. ⁓ If you have any skepticism in you, you can immediately see why this is something to manage from a risk point of view if you're a bank. But the implications here are as a business, that doesn't mean you jump to zero threat tolerance around ⁓ data risk threats like a lot of enterprises do, but it does mean that you actually try and manage those risks.

Jim (03:55)
Thank

Jeremy (04:09)
that we were just talking about, build your checklist around what it is you're using AI for so that way you can manage it better.

Jim (04:16)
And then the next article that we kind of thought was interesting is from the New Yorker, which is a little more well known. that is. Yeah, I assume that you did. That would not surprise me. ⁓ But it's just the idea that that is coming from culture. It's going to basically consume us and co-opt our culture and then take us on a different path. It's kind of interesting. ⁓ I think which which becomes.

Jeremy (04:22)
I do read the New Yorker.

that the

Jim (04:43)
The biggest concern or question with that is what is original or unique or special? You know, what what what is culture? Because again, when when you see the hips, I mean, New York's a great spot to see this, right? When the influencers tell you in, you know, in New York to go on TikTok to go to it, you know, go to a new restaurant or a new spot for a baked good or whatever ice cream, you know, those.

Jeremy (05:07)
You're calling me a robot?

Jim (05:09)
Right.

Where does everybody go? The lines are around the block. Right. So what's culture like? It's not that they stumbled on it. Music. Another great example is right. Because they as well. Right. It has been for years. ⁓ Some level of artificial intelligence. Right. And that like you don't just go to a record store and like rifle through vinyl you a rifle through vinyl and like pick. I mean, some people do the hipster. I just random. But I mean, it just randomly the algorithm.

Jeremy (05:20)
or the algorithms of nothing else.

⁓ I go to record stores. Shout out to Prex

in Princeton.

Jim (05:39)
think you found someone that's unique, but you didn't. found someone that, based on your unique ⁓ interest that you've already been fed by the algorithm, you've now, in your listening patterns, you've been fed similar ⁓ types of music or genre or artists, right? And so it's fascinating, really, because we like to think that we have our own culture, even with those sorts of things. And we really don't. We're kind of led by

We're led by what popular culture tells us and then that tells us to lead lean more into it and I think this article kind of says like well is it coming to reshape or reclaim?

Jeremy (06:15)
Well, this

is where like we've talked about before, you know, bringing healthy criticism, healthy skepticism, but also being proactive about it. I have gotten as much out of music software algorithms as I have stopped. So meaning I nothing nothing wrong with pop music. I don't tend to I don't veer towards pop music. I do. Well, you it has it's it has its place. But when I listen to I am a very eclectic listener. World music. like jazz.

I like blues, like rock, like a lot of ska punk, that's my jam as you know. ⁓ But the thing is, when I listen, I'm also proactive in how I use the algorithms to curate. it doesn't just have to be about music. When we're thinking about culture and we're receiving culture, or if you're an influencer, you are a creator online yourself,

Jim (07:11)
in minor

ways, but I know a lot of...

Jeremy (07:14)
Here we are in

our little podcast and we're creating content too. We're being stewards of the type of world we want to create. And as consumers, we have to be judicious with what we let into our creative minds. So AI slop and here's the for me the important part for this episode. AI coming for your culture. AI is already a part of the culture. So AI slop is actually no different than human slop. We see lots of people slopping the big hyperbole ⁓

around.

Jim (07:44)
It's the volume of that is being created and will be created that is hard to calculate. then then that and then people and businesses using tools to create new things that is that are fed on that. don't know. I think that's the way where it gets a little gray and that's where the culture it's like a it's like, well, take an echo chambers like social media with an echo chamber.

Jeremy (07:52)
I agree with that.

like the swirl

in the toilet that just keeps going.

Jim (08:08)
It

going and going. right.

On that note, we're going to get into the meat and the nuts and bolts of it. it. ⁓ the Zoom CEO's agreement with Bill Gates and some other tech titans that basically we're going to get to a three-day work week. I think it's going to be less. I'm going to not get too controversial here. I think it'll be two or less days. I think the idea of work as we know it is gone, I think. And it's going to happen sooner than we realize. ⁓

Jeremy (08:40)
I'm

glad we're early in the episode because I have so many things to debate you about.

Jim (08:44)
Okay, that's

fine. Well, this is from Yahoo Finance and this is the idea is that ⁓ again, the Zoom CEO says, you hey, we're getting to a three day work week. That's gonna happen. I think we're already at a four day or less work week in actual productivity. think we're probably close to. Yeah, like in like.

Jeremy (09:00)
I think home-based

employees probably are because there's so many things vying for our time particularly when you're working at home but I disagree for small business and here's why. I think the way that if you live in a small business, you own a small business, whatever your relationship to your small business is.

we tend to not say, I put in the equivalent of what I would have done 40 hours a week at an enterprise job, and now I'm gonna go take the rest of the week off. No, you end up saying, okay, well, how else can I help to get my business ahead?

Jim (09:34)
do more.

ends and

we don't have the staff we don't have the money we don't have the

Jeremy (09:41)
So

I think if we stop. So here's my counterpoint to the Zoom CEO is that I think if we just have healthy priorities and recognize that we're not going to have a three day work week as a small business owner. But if we can think about rather than how can it reduce my time in the office, how can it help me excel with my time?

Jim (10:01)
We're back

to productivity because the idea is that the massive scale of productivity increase and efficiency increase from these tools being used these AI tools by big corporations and then by individual businesses and the one and and everyone talking to each other using these tools basically just like Having our own personal assistance. mean look I got a personal assistant for the first time in life about a year and a half ago. Yeah, and It was transformational right because it helped me understand myself better in my patterns and helped me kind of

like work my way through it. And I think the same thing is true with my actual, you know, other AI tools, my AI tools that are like my personal assistants to a new ones, we're going to be rolling out and those things help as well. They help me understand myself better and see patterns and collectively, whether it's an AI tool or a personal, a real personal assistant, ⁓ it helps with those things. But it also rapidly increases productivity and efficiency.

Jeremy (10:55)
And I also think there's something that small businesses have going for them that big businesses don't, which is a lot of the businesses ⁓ where we've consulted, we've introduced technology, ⁓ it has relieved them of needing to be in the office full-time every day of the week because with automation, with AI at the front door, all of the tools that we've put into place for our customers, it's not that they don't want to be in the office, it's that life happens. Emergencies come up.

Jim (11:16)
that.

I can

also go away for a weekend or a day or take care of something, you know, out of town or out of the city.

Jeremy (11:31)
I don't

think that they're actually going to embrace the three-day work weekend. mean, I think about our clients, think about ourselves. I mean, I am doing more.

Jim (11:43)
I would dial up more. have dialed up more. I've gotten more done in this last year and a half, two years than I have because I got clarity, right? And that clarity came from pausing a little bit. A lot of the activities I was involved with and thinking through logically, again, using tools, but also people to think through.

How can I best achieve the goals that I want and how do I use these tools to do that? Not just using for the sake of using them. Yes, I learned them because I wanted to learn them and I wanted to be aware and awake because I could see what was coming next. But in the case of any regular kind of business owner, you need to be awake first and aware. You need to see your blind spots. Start to again, you use some these tools to help you see your blind spots and then you need to start to fold in. So fine, you might not go to a three day work week, but what you could do is actually

have a decent work life back that is okay like I invested it in my extra time because I don't you don't have extra time but I've invested the time that I've saved myself

Jeremy (12:35)
I love the way you frame that.

Jim (12:46)
for health and wellness and mental health and spiritual health and things like that. I'm also working toward doing that, even with deepening my relationships in my life. But everyone will have creative passions, so they might want to explore some of those creative passions. They might want to travel more. The question becomes the monetary piece of that is where does the money come from? And that's a whole nother issue for a whole nother day that we're First basic income and things. ⁓

Jeremy (13:09)
But do you remember my? That's common.

So my ⁓ well, so I heard ⁓ a podcast talking about this article and ⁓ what the what they were saying.

Jim (13:24)
AI generated podcast.

Jeremy (13:25)
Could have been.

But I think what they were saying was ⁓ the three-day work week may be coming, but only for those people who have jobs at the end of this transformation. That's the key. And those who don't have a job, they're going to have to figure something else out.

Jim (13:40)
Become an entrepreneur, a content creator, a ⁓ gig worker, build the thing that you've always wanted to build, do the things you always wanted to do.

Jeremy (13:49)
But for me, do remember what I said when we were talking about this on our Discord? ⁓ This article for me is like a big clickbait headline. But it's also, but it's also.

Jim (13:58)
that about everything

well everything is clickbait that's why we click on it but

Jeremy (14:03)
the book that came out, what, a decade ago at this point, the four hour work we did.

Jim (14:07)
Remember

that?

Jeremy (14:08)
That

was like the original click bait. Like who doesn't want a four hour work week? And I think that there are things to be learned when you sort of get under the hood of what any of these people speaking in hyperbole are saying. There are really important takeaways, but I just think that you have to be critical before you click, before you listen. Understand that there's a real risk of false expectations here. If you're thinking that a three day work week is gonna serve your small business, you're mistaken.

Jim (14:37)
Well,

the other thing is that look, these predictions come and go. Sometimes they're right. And this is why people unfortunately think it's like, OK, it's like we're in the Northeast. It's like when the big winter storm forecast comes. But again, it might be a hurricane prediction if you're in that territory tornado predictions and like everyone gets hyped up and like ready or up here in the Northeast. It's like we buy the French toast ingredients, right? We buy the milk, the bread and the eggs to prepare to stock up for the pending doom of this this massive storm that's coming.

And then if it doesn't come or you only get a dusting or an inch and everyone says, ⁓ see, it was all hype. There's a concern that I have that this is that winter storm coming, but it's about to hit, right? It's about to hit in a big way. And unfortunately, whether it hits this month or sometime over the winter, it's going to

Jeremy (15:25)
Let's

stick on this example as we talk about the tool for today. Sure, go for it. ⁓ Winter is coming.

Jim (15:32)
Winter is coming. Winter's here, but yes, winter's coming. Doesn't feel like it in the studio today because the air is not functioning.

Jeremy (15:39)
You can ask

my wife last week we we have a ritual we usually have coffee on the couch in the morning we talk and catch up. I like. I was an angry animal. Poor building people. ⁓ So ⁓ this article that I was served really it got my goat. It was so frustrating saying big headline. People are talking comma. This coming winter could be the worst yet.

Jim (15:46)
We're disgruntled this morning.

Yeah. People are saying people have said scientists say remember the old like scholastic journals. was like scientists say like who are these scientists.

Jeremy (16:15)
Who are the people talking about this? ⁓

Jim (16:18)
Yeah, Trump

uses that of every politician uses that. like some say I've used it.

Jeremy (16:22)
So I

just think that if we take a second. the tool that we're to talk about today is how to spot when AI claim is hype versus real progress. And I think that you can just broaden that a little bit to say, when are you looking at clickbait versus.

Jim (16:38)
When you look at

it, call it bullshit.

Jeremy (16:39)
Right,

exactly. And I get served a ton of... By me? No, no, no. I wasn't even going there, sir. I get served a ton of articles from like Popular Science. And Popular Science, those headlines can go either way. Sometimes it's really good fact-based science. Often it's clickbait these days. My son was actually, I shared something with him and he's like, Dad, that's AI slop. We stop. ⁓

So anyway, there's a couple things that we can do. And this is a tool as a framework, not as like a software tool for today's tool tip. So first is check the time horizon, right? So is the claim something about happening right now? Or are they saying, someday you'll be able to dot dot dot, right? There's gonna be a big winter storm. People say, okay, so that's number one. So really look for who is saying it and what's the timeframe.

Jim (17:23)
Soon. Maybe.

Jeremy (17:31)
Next is look for proof, right? Is there data around adoption? Are they just saying, know, most people think, or is it an actual science-based survey? ⁓ Next, watch out for vague buzzwords. This is my little peeve. Revolutionary, transformative, right? The end of work as we know it.

Jim (17:52)
Yeah. ⁓

Jeremy (17:53)
this is killing me. And then ask what's missing. So what infrastructure laws, social shifts would need to be in place first in order to have the kind of adoption or pending doom or massive revolution?

Jim (18:07)
look for small

wins, Look for little baby steps that you can take. That's incremental. Luke and I were talking about it yesterday when we working on the working through thinking through actually the motion and some of these other tools that we looked at, right? And that you looked at as well, that kind of claimed all this stuff. And they were like, well, we just need to make some incremental improvements at this point. These tools don't do that. They're claiming to transform your life and transform you to do everything automated for you and be your one magic personal assistant. And in some cases, you know, they're just whether

Jeremy (18:11)
That's it.

Jim (18:37)
it's that or these video tools that say, you know, they're going to magically do all these things. They're not there yet for a lot of them. So I remember pretty damn close. So keep exploring them and look at their version updates too. That's the other thing is that incremental improvements. We just found a great version update to something that we were working on for a video component of something that we're going to be releasing shortly. And it was like, damn, that's pretty close. Right. It's pretty damn close to what we had just framed out and created a scope for. Right. So you don't ever know what the incremental steps and that's

That's the kind of the to wrap with this. Take those little baby steps and don't get to thinking that you're going to hit one button like I do sometimes ⁓ and magically your entire life and all the things that are annoying and take up your time are going to be gone. And now you can just focus on the bigger picture things, the strategy and the fun parts. It's not there yet, but it is trending in that direction. It's definitely trending in that direction. So take the baby steps.